One-on-One Interview with Li-Pei Wu, Founding Chairman of TACL and Author of Two Countries: My Taiwanese American Immigrant Story
Born in 1934, Li-pei Wu and his family faced extreme economic hardships during Japan’s 50-year occupation of Taiwan. At the end of World War II, Chiang Kai-shek and the Kuomintang (KMT) took control of the island nation. Wu, a diligent student, gained entrance to National Taiwan University (NTU) where he cultivated his passion for Taiwan’s democracy and self-determination. These ideas were forbidden under KMT rule and the authorities eventually opened a file on Wu’s activities. Wu knew he was at risk of prison or worse, so he made the difficult decision to leave the only country he had ever known. At thirty-three years old, he left Taiwan for the US to create a better life for his wife and young family.
Through hard work and perseverance in America, Wu obtained his graduate degree in business and joined a commercial bank in Alaska as an entry-level clerk, eventually rising to the upper echelons of senior management. As CEO, he led General Bank in Los Angeles to become one of the most profitable banks in the US. Wu gained national recognition and received major cover stories in business journals. Yet throughout his time spent as a Taiwanese American, he never lost sight of the plight of the Taiwanese people in his birth country.
In 2004, after almost forty years in his adopted country of America, Wu left to join the Taiwan government as a senior advisor to President Chen Shui-bian and the current President Tsai Ing-wen. He returned to Taiwan in hopes that the Taiwanese people would have the freedoms and liberties he had enjoyed as an American. He still resides in Taiwan today as a well-respected independence advocate.
The following is an interview conducted by current National President of TACL (Taiwanese American Citizens League), Wellington Tzou on January 5, 2023 in Taiwan at Li-Pei Wu’s home. The interview has been edited for readability.
Wellington Tzou: Which of the following do you identify with and why?
- American
- Asian American
- Taiwanese American
- Taiwanese
Li-Pei Wu: Of course, Taiwanese American, because I was born in Taiwan and I became a US Citizen in the United States. So as I wrote in my own book, being Taiwanese American, I was proud of being Taiwanese American, despite the difficulties I have encountered throughout my life. The United States is a country, is a democracy and has its freedoms. And in fact, even if we complain about the discrimination, compared to what I encountered in Taiwan while being Taiwanese and after the Chinese came, the discrimination that I encountered in the US is much less than what I encountered when I was raised in my early days in Taiwan.
I was born as a Japanese (Li-Pei Wu was born during the Japanese occupation of Taiwan), which is not what I wanted to be, but they said that I am Japanese. When the Chinese came, I was forced to be Chinese. Only America is the one place that I chose that I wanted to be an American and I was very happy to live and have my career in America. I am proud of being an American, but I don’t forget my heritage, my homeland. I am proud of being Taiwanese, particularly after we work so hard for Taiwan to gain freedom in a sense. Taiwan now has a democratic government and freedom. So I am proud of being Taiwanese. I don’t forget about my heritage, but I’m proud of being an American. I want to call myself Taiwanse American. That is why I organized the Taiwanese American Citizens League in America.
Of course, during my life in the United States, even though I said, the discrimination was not that bad, there was still discrimination. I had to fight twice as much as my fellow Americans to gain respect or be able to have career advancement. For example, when I worked for a bank in Alaska, my client always complained about not understanding what I was talking about. Often, we would talk over the phone and all of sudden he would yell, “I don’t understand what you are saying “and would then slam the phone. At that time, I felt really bad and I had to work hard to learn English as well as my fellow Americans and had to work much harder than they did to gain respect.
So I have that kind of experience. But, just to give you another example. I once brought my children from Alaska and went to Los Angeles to visit Disneyland. While we were waiting in line to buy the tickets, there was an American behind me who kept pushing. I said, “We are all in line here; there are people in front of me who have to go before I can go.” But he said to me, “Because of people like you who came from other countries and don’t abide by our rules, that is why we have problems.” At that time, in all of a sudden, I thought about how do I answer that? Then I said, “How long have you been in the United States?” and he replied, “I was born here”. I then said that “I am an Eskimo. My ancestors lived in Alaska, lived in the US for many more years than your ancestors who have been in the United States. Who are the ones that took over the US? Who are the ones causing the trouble? Not us. You!”
I had to do things like that. To force myself to say something which is not true. If I don’t answer that way, they will consider us as foreigners, even though I am already a US Citizen.
So we have encountered so many difficulties. I decided that Taiwanse Americans had to stand up. And to stand up, you have to have an organization. That is why I organized TACL. On one hand, we wanted to be good citizens – do our best to be a model for fellow Americans and show fellow Americans that Taiwanese Americans are good citizens. But on the other hand, we had to fight for our rights. We did not want to be discriminated against. We wanted to be treated equally. That was our job. I had hoped that with this organization, we could achieve that goal.
WT: That’s great to hear some of the reasons that drove you to start the organization in the past. And so, do you feel like there will be the continued need to have Taiwanese specific organizations and conferences, such as TACL, TAP, ITASA?
LPW: Of course! The problem we are encountering is not gone. It has improved somewhat, but we have to keep reminding ourselves to be a good citizen. To be a model for other Americans. At the same time, we have to fight for our rights. I will give you another example.
I don’t know whether we kept that record or not, but when I was the Chairman of TACL. The Monterey Park city passed a city ordinance that the police had the right to stop and check for identities. The city said it was because there were so many foreigners and Asians, that came to the United States. Either, without a legitimate residence or they 偷渡[smuggled in] 偷跑進來[snuck into the country] so they have to check. I believed this was discrimination. Why? Because in Monterey Park, there were a lot of Asian people. Almost all Asian people. Why don’t they do the same thing in other cities, other places?
So we organized a demonstration, which included people from Japan, Philippines, Thailand, etc. All immigrants. Together, with more than 1,000 people, we surrounded the Monterey Park City Hall. We would also attend the city council meeting, sent in petitions, and continued to fight. We also had several press conferences. Finally, we won, and the City of Monterey Park changed the rule saying that they cannot do that.
Those are things organizations like TACL can do. With an organization, you will have the power to do something.
WT: That’s good. It’s good to hear some of the history too about some of the activities that were done. We know some of the stories, but we don’t always have the details.
LPW: Oh, you know about that?
WT: Yes, I have heard some of the stories before. For the next question, I think it is hard for Taiwanese people to separate themselves from politics. Do you think as TAs who live in the US, it is important to learn about Taiwan’s history and current issues as well, to have some of that knowledge? Or do you think it is possible to separate some of that?
LPW: Well, you have the blood. That blood is Taiwanese and naturally, if you know your heritage, you will feel concerned about your homeland. Everybody has a homeland, you will want to care about your homeland. But this is not to say, even if your homeland is bad, you don’t have to keep saying that you love your homeland, keep supporting them even if they are doing things wrong. This is not saying that. It is because you are concerned about what is happening there. You have relatives and ancestors that are there. So you would be concerned about whether they are doing well. And if they are not doing that well, obviously once you know, it’s a part of human nature that you would be concerned about it. That is not a matter of if you should be concerned or you should not be concerned. It just naturally happens since you have that blood and you have ancestors there.
Just recently, my son and all his family all came back and I showed them around. I took them to our ancestral tomb and showed them that this is their 阿公(grandfather) 阿嬤(grandmother) and their great grandpa, great grandma and so forth. I also showed them why our family became who we are today and what they told us growing up. To know this, you can become a better person because you would be proud of your family or you will be proud of the good people from your homeland. I think that helps make you a better person.
WT: What do you envision for TACL to be like in the future?
WLP: The idea, the purpose, I have talked about earlier. That is something that needs to continue. You want to be a good citizen and the organization can praise the ones that set an example. Back in the day, once or twice, we had the Taiwansese American of the Year and rank by number one, number two, number three to praise those that did good things. The ones that did things for the community. We wanted to have those things so that people would be proud of their identity. Those things should continue to make sure that our purpose is achieved, which is to be a good citizen and to continue to fight for our rights as a citizen and not be discriminated against.
Of course, now you have the professional organization (TAP), you can help each other with this kind of association. Find good people to do the good things for themselves and for their country. The organizations can help do those things.
WT: How do you think TACL can do more to support the TA community and not just the people that are in the organization?
LPW: What I said earlier is important. Taiwanese Americans are a community. You have different reasons to have different organizations. You have a medical association, accounting association, and things like 同鄉會(Taiwanese American Association). So you have all those organizations and TACL is just one of those organizations. So if you all work together and understand each other, no matter whatever reason, this would help. This would have power.
For example Census, just TACL would not be able to get it done, so you have to work with other organizations. To make sure there is more help to complete this, for the common goal. Things are easier when you have that common goal. For example, 商會(Taiwanese Chamber of Commerce), they also help young people there. So if somehow TACL maintains good contact with them and then you will know what others are doing and others know what you are doing, you can help each other. I hope that can be achieved.
WT: I agree, and definitely continuing to build on the relationships from the Census as well.
LPW: That is a good example. Without all the orientation working together, you will not be able to get over 200,000.
WT: You recently published your memoir in English. Some people have stated that it is actually quite different from the Chinese Language version. How has it been changed to cater more to an American audience? What do you hope young people, especially young Taiwanese Americans, learn from your story?
LPW: In this English book, it mainly emphasizes my concern for Taiwanese Americans. Hopefully younger generations, like TACL, will understand the ideas of what Taiwanese American should be. To give another example, my life and my experience in the US. The one in the Chinese language says more about me coming back to Taiwan. Even though I am an American Citizen, it is more so to show the Taiwanese people that even though I am so old, I am willing to come back to Taiwan to fight against our common enemy. Another difference, I have been back for almost 20 years, so the English version also has new experiences that I had in Taiwan that I added to this new book. I have personally seen a lot of things, good or bad, happening that I want to give my opinion on.
WT: What do you hope for young people, especially young Taiwanese Americans? What do you hope they learn from your story?
LWP: There would be, from the story, they learn that you have to work very hard to be successful. I also hope that, much like for TACL, they learn that they have to be willing to fight for your right to be in the United States. You have to be a good citizen to be respected, and once you gain that respect then there will be less discrimination.
WT: Thank you for this opportunity to meet. It is very fortunate that I just happen to be in Taiwan at the same time. And yeah 很高興有機會可以在台灣同時見面和討論這些話題能讓我們多了解以前發生的事情 (so that we can speak like this together and I can learn about some things that happened in the past)
TACL appreciates all the hard work and effort that Li-pei Wu has put in to help shape what Taiwanese American life looks like today in the US.
To learn more about Li-pei Wu and buy a copy of his book, Two Countries: My Taiwanese American Immigrant Story, click here.
